Credit card companies stuffed all the crazy they could into their contracts in advance of the CARD act taking effect. This time they might have taken it too far, even for banks. Shoulda read that boilerplate!
#599; The Boilerplate Clause [WonderMark] (Thanks to MercuryPDX!)
In 2007, Apple introduced the iPhone, and the world exploded. In 2010, just moments after the world had reformed, Apple introduced the iPad, and the world exploded again. What will happen in 2012 and 2014? This chart attempts to explain.
L’évolution de l’iPad en 2012 et 2014 [BeGeek.Fr] (WARNING IT’S IN FRENCH!)
Mom and Dad always wanted you to be a lawyer but who wants to dump all that money down the tubes and read those boring books? Well, no longer! Some burnout is selling his law degree from a fancy university on Craigslist!
Right now the bids are only at $222.50, though the MSRP is $59,250. Just listen to these unique features!
“After several years of practicing law with a bunch of nerds in Silicon Valley I have come to the conclusion that my law degree is useless and I don’t want to be a lawyer anymore. Though I spent over $100,000 on it I am willing to sell it for the bargain basement price of $59,250, which is the current value of my remaining student loan balance.”
“This priceless collectible will permit you to be surrounded by hobby-less assholes whose entire life is dictated by billing by the hour and being anal dickheads.”
“I will really sell this piece of shit. “
It’s really reflective of the new economy, as but a couple of years ago a DePaul law degree was going for $100,000. That’s almost 50% pricedrop, and a hefty premium in terms of fancypants upgrade.
My Law Degree (Seriously) – $59250 (lower pac hts) [Craigslist]
Selling My Law Degree (Seriously) [eBay]
Craigslist Post of the Day: Top-Tier Law Degree ($59,250) [Above The Law]
Everybody needs a good placebo to get them through the day. For Behavioral economist and Predictably Irrational author Dan Ariely, it used to be Airborne. Even though he was mainly sure it didn’t work, that faint glimmer was enough to keep him taking it and cold-free. Then he read new studies that said it was totally placebo. His placebo stopped working thereafter. Luckily, his mom has sent him a new placebo! And he feels right as rain. What’s your favorite placebo? [via BoingBoing]
Lisa Charles 212-321-8463.
An iPod erupted on a high school science room desk in Pentucket Regional High School in, MA yesterday. Supposedly…
…it was broken and a kid took it apart and was rubbing wires against the battery, according to a commenter on Newbury Port News who says he’s the father of a kid in the classroom at the time. Those lithium ion batteries are touchy creatures, aren’t they?
iPod: so dominant, the only iPod killer is iPod.
Student’s iPod explodes in class [The Daily News] (Thanks to Steve!)
(Photos: Shermeee, Mike Schmid, ThisParticularGreg)
Here is some Countrywide executive customer service info. Even though Bank of America acquired Countrywide, some of this contact info is still valid. Former Countrywide customers who experiencing post-integration account difficulties have reported success using it.
Mailing address: (Send all your certified complaint letters, etc. here.)
OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT
ATTN: ADRIENNE ELY
400 COUNTRYWIDE WAY
MS SV-314
SIMI VALLEY, CA 93065
OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT
RAQUEL ROBINSON
1-800-669-2443 x 4115
SUPERVISOR OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT
LINDA TURNER
1-800-405-0078 x 5104
400 Countrywide Way SV-314
Simi Valley, CA 93065-3500
Other Addresses you can mail to:
Countrywide Mortgage
400 Countrywide Way SV-HRD
Simi Valley, CA 93065
450 American St
Simi Valley, CA 93065
7105 Corporate Dr.
Plano, TX 75024
P.O. Box 10211
Van Nuys, CA 91499
P.O. Box 5170
Simi Valley, CA 93062-5170
21 E. Victoria Street
Santa Barbara, CA 93101
35 North Lake Avenue, 35-72B
Pasadena, CA 91101
Here’s another excellent little resource for you:
Countrywide Legal Dept Direct Line
Mary Archer-paralegal
972-526-3610
Direct number to Workout Dept. in Lancaster, CA:
661-951-5100
(not toll free but gets you right in)
Countrywide Primary Phone:
(800) 669-6093
Other Phone Numbers:
(818) 874-8779
(818) 225-3000
(972) 526-6330
(805) 650-6566
(805) 520-5100
(800) 686-0145
Primary Fax:
(800) 658-9364
Other Fax Numbers:
(805) 520-5019
Primary Contact: Daniel Whitehead
Executive Relations Coordinator
Other Contacts:
Joe Riggio, Senior Vice President
Angela De Aro, Vice President
Melissa Guerra, 1st Vice President
Patricia Mckenzie
Rina Jariwala, VP, Operations
Also have the homeowner email a hardship letter to each of these email addresses:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
Theresa Stonelake 1-661-951-5360
Steven Huecker 1-661-951-5420 (this is a supervisor)
[via ShortSaleWealth]
Marketing blogger Joseph Jaffe’s new book. “Flip The Funnel” preaches some of the same new religion we do at Consumerist and uses as examples some of our favorite stories, like United Breaks Guitars and boogers in the Domino’s. Joe is all about how customer service should be the first thought, not an afterthought. He warns how if companies don’t stop being like Delta and start being like Zappos, if you don’t make retention the new acquisition, social media will kill you. I like Joe’s rap and I happily agreed to pen the forword, and I thought I’d share the results with you:
“I had a simple question for eBay about one of their policies. A simple, specific, question. So I sent them an email. They sent me back an email. It was obviously preforumulated, although it started with my name. That’s great. Awesome! They know my name! How did they do that? And it was a pretty great looking email. High-fives around the conference room when they banged that one out. It was chock-full of helpful information and there were so many different questions it could have answered. They probably thought it was super efficient, because you have one thing that does all these different things. Unfortunately, out of all the questions it answered, none of them was mine. I asked for an apple, they gave me an orange, and I’m supposed to be happy because it’s a fruit. Now, to make matters worse, after getting this non-helpful email, I wrote back to say hey, you didn’t answer my question. They didn’t respond to this second email, but they did send me a survey. They wanted me to rate my interaction. And I’m like, awesome. So I’m going through this survey, checking off every box to say, “You guys suck, and you suck, and you suck and you suck.” And in the middle of the survey, it malfunctions. Their customer service is so bad that it even gets wrong me telling it how bad it is.
Processing is not solving. If a supposed solution uses automation to get through more of your customer input faster while fixing fewer problems, it’s not a solution, it’s a failure.
The reason why customer service is so horrible these days is that it’s not a machine for making widgets. This hasn’t stopped businesses from judging it like it is. Companies see customer service as debit on the balance sheets. A call center is a cost center. Instead of seeing the future profits that can accrue from happy customers, companies want to cut cut cut. In the name of efficiency, people who can’t even understand the English words they’re speaking are representing brands in crucial customer engagements. Are you really going to abdicate the last mile of customer interaction, the one where most problems, and stories for Consumerist.com, of which I’m the co-Managing Editor, arise to a population of low-paid, disenfranchised workers with zero career potential within the company and no stake in the brand and an average turnover rate of just a few months? In the pursuit of next-quarter profits, too many companies have said “yes.”
If you bought what you thought was a new microwave and came home to find the box full of wet towels instead of a microwave, you can easily say, “This is a rip-off.” It gets harder when you’re evaluating business practices. They come with bubbly corners, everything looks so pleasing and professional, everyone wears a tie and all the “policies” are clearly explained in nanoscopic print. That doesn’t change what lies there once you cut away all the fat and gristle. We call it a scam. They call it a business plan.
The worst thing about the edicts of the Church of Churn and Burn isn’t that they’re “mean” or violate some whitepaper’s thumb suck on “best practices,” it’s that it makes less money. The avowed justification for being a jerk, profits, doesn’t even hold its own water. This notion of get the customers in the door, get as much money as you can from them, then toss them out the back and launch your next marketing campaign to get the next batch of suckers, is dead. It might have worked when you could just bombard consumers into submission with enough repetitions of you 30-second spot, but consumers are getting the real scoop from each other with unprecedented ease, breadth and depth. The internet has accelerated word-of-mouth to the degree that one reader’s customer service horror story can go from Consumerist.com to the tops of social news networks to major news outlets in just a few days. How cost-effective did you say was the idea of firing all your experienced floor employees and replacing them with raw recruits, Circuit City, R.I.P.?
You’re probably being ripped off at this very moment and you don’t even know it. Have you seen what your frequent flyer miles are worth lately? Probably a lot less than when you signed up. Everywhere we turn, companies are pulling back from the value they offered when you signed the contract and handed over your payment, and leaving fees and restrictions in their wake. Gift cards whose value dwindles over time. Credit card payment due dates getting shorter and shorter. Customers with one late payment on their credit card having their interest rates shoot up to the highest the law allows. Impossible to fulfill warranty repairs. Overdraft fees completely disproportionate to their cost. Health insurance coverage denied for the flimsiest of reasons. The list goes on.
A number of false prophets say they have the answer. It’s almost rote that each iteration of “new marketing 2.0 get jiggy with the internets” advice uses as its proof of concept some story about how there was this one guy who absolutely loved this company’s – let’s say hats – and every time he got on the plane he would tell people how these hats rock. He sent in his ideas on how to make hats even better and rather than not even reading what he wrote or responding with a form letter and some free coupons, the hat company sent him more free hats and incorporated some of his suggestions in their future designs. Yay, see how treating your customers nicely and using their feedback works. This is groundbreaking research? I always thought the secret of business was figuring out what people need and selling it to them. Apparently, others hold different opinions. They’ve opted to build entire empires based on telling people what they want and then selling it to them. It works, until people stop listening. You can’t tell people what to do if they’re not listening. Well, it’s not that they’re not listening; they’re just getting their information from a lot more sources. Sources that are faster, better, and independent. In this new environment where customers demand instant accountability, your street cred is priceless.
Surely there must be a way to bridge the gap between us and our customers. Jaffe’s book seems a pretty good place to start. He gets that customer service is marketing, and that marketing is listening. As he details, it might take under a minute to ruin a customer’s opinion of your company, but Google will remember their blog post forever. Crisis mitigation is but just the first step, though. Using social media to put out PR forest fires is one thing, but can you cultivate bonfires of customer joy?
Through success stories like USAA, Zappos, and the Obama campaign, Flip the Funnel demonstrates how leading edge marketers are authentically engaging with their customers and building long-term relationships, relationships that can live through and past economic downturns. With insight, enthusiasm and real-world examples, Jaffe illuminates the philosophies and techniques marketers need to be using to survive in a world where the communications playing field is flattening and average citizens are seizing power and dictating the terms of what gets paid attention. Not only is marketing no longer one-way, it’s not even two-way. It’s a conversation between you, me, and everyone I’m talking to about what we’re talking about. Sure social media is a huge part of the equation, but you can’t just slap your company on Facebook and expect to start a revolution. As Jaffe shows, it’s not which tools you use, it’s how you use them, and why.
In this book, Jaffe proves how by making customer experience paramount, retention becomes the new acquisition. This is the “flip” of the traditional “marketing funnel” that forms the basis for this book’s title. Within he reveals how some of the most exciting and inspiring organizations are shifting the marketing model so that they start with the sale rather than ending with it. After all, if activated brand advocates are your best form of advertising, do you really need more advertising? Or do you just need a better way of relating to your customers?”
Flip The Funnel [Amazon]
Joe also interviewed me and there’s a recording of that up here]
“Brakes, brakes not working!” screamed Lee moments before crashing his 1996 Toyota Camry into the back of another car, killing a family of three. In 2006, the Minnesota jury didn’t believe this testimony and sentenced Lee to 8 years in prison. In 2010, they might be changing their mind.
Not presented at the trial? Some 1996 Camrys had been recalled 10 years prior for “unintended acceleration” due to a flawed cruise control system. But now, the latest wave of Toyota deathtrap coverage has renewed interest in his case, and the family of the dead victims is working to overturn his conviction.
New Evidence of Runaway Toyotas May Help Imprisoned Camry Owner [ABC] (Thanks to Justin!)
As we told you earlier this month, sister pub Consumer Reports tested 208 bagged salads and found 39% had excessive bacteria, including fecal contamination. That means there’s poop in the greens. And now there’s something you can do about it.
Consumer Reports tested for total coliforms and other bacteria including enterococcus. According to industry experts, 10,000 or more colony forming units per gram (CFU/g) is excessive. The tests of 16 different brands had 39% exceeded that level for total coliforms, and 23% for enterococcus.
Hate spinach? Bacteria doesn’t. Many of the unacceptable packages contained spinach and were within 1-5 days of their use-by date. Bag vs clamshell, organic vs non, baby greens or no baby greens, made no difference. And packages that were 5-8 days until their use-by date fared better.
Even if the package says super-duper-washed, you should still wash them by hand. Or, better yet, just buy your salad elements separately, wash them, and chop them.
The big problem is the FDA hasn’t set limits for how much poop or other bacteria can be in bagged salad. Tell ’em to get crackin’ by signing this petition.
Bagged salad: How clean? [Consumer Reports]
PREVIOUSLY: Who Keeps Pooping In My Bags Of Salad?!
We asked, “What do you want in a Consumerist iPhone app?” You said, “How about a cross-platform mobile site instead first? After that we can talk apps.” Touché. So then, we give you, m.consumerist.com.
I’ve been working on this project with our designers for a while and am pretty happy with the low-frills approach we got going on. You got your three pages of the latest post headlines. Clicking through gives you the post fit on your mobile device. Next and Prev backwards and forward. External links load that site in your mobile browser. Currently you you can’t read or make comments, but we will be working on how to best add comments in future releases.
However, if you want to make a comment, or just prefer to slide into classic mode, hit the “switch to full site” link. Send story tips or show your support with a donation from the bottom nav bar.
Bookmark m.consumerist.com on your mobile device so you can read our latest posts on-the-go, stripped down and streamlined for maximal mobile viewing pleasure. Give it a whirl and let us know what you think! We do have plans for a full-fledged iPhone app down the line, but it makes sense to do this first.
Now you can know what Big Brother knows about you and get access to the same dirt everyone from your boss, landlord, insurance agent, to your favorite casino has on you. Here is a comprehenisve list of websites and phone numbers for most of the “specialty” consumer reports, like your employment, rental, and check writing history. Be sure to check them out and correct any errors, before a crisis hits.
Employment History Reports
The Work Number
ChoicePoint (866) 312-8075
Acxiom
Abso
Tenant History Reports
ChoicePoint (877) 448-5732
First Advantage SafeRent (888) 333-2413
Tenant Data Services
RentBureau
UD Registry (818) 785-3905
Auto & Home Insurance Claim Reports
ChoicePoint
Insurance Services Office (ISO) (800) 627-3487
Credit Bureaus Reports
Equifax
Experian
Transunion
Innovis
Payment Reporting Builds Credit (PRBC)
Full File Disclosure/Personal Information Reports
ChoicePoint
LexisNexis
Check Writing History Reports
ChexSystems (800) 428-9623
TeleCheck (800) 835-3243.
Shared Check Authorization Network (800) 262-7771 Fax: (800) 358-4506
Health History Reports
Medical Information Bureau (MIB) (866) 692-6901
Prescription Drug Purchase History Reports
Ingenix MedPoint
Milliman IntelliScript
Social Security Statement
Social Security Administration
Purchase Returns History Reports
Retail Equation
Gaming Patron’s Credit History and Transaction Data
Central Credit
Other Reports
TeleTrack
Utilities & Telecommunications Reports
National Consumer Telecom and Utilities Exchange, Inc (NCTUE) Call 1-888-201-5643 for reports
(Thanks to Bob!)
SOURCES:
Do A Background Check On Yourself [Consumerist]
[Consumer Reports]
[PrivacyRights]
[Bankrate]
[Listergeant]
[MyFico Forums]
[CreditBoards]
MagicJack sued BoingBoing for defamation after they had the gall to criticize the gadget maker’s EULA, and the blog has won, to the tune of $50,000.
BoingBoing argued that the user agreement gave MagicJack the right to analyze the calls of customers using its USB dongle device. The device allows users to make cheap calls over VoIP. BoingBoing fought back, and won. The judge tossed the defamation case after the blog’s successful anti-SLAPP motion, and MagicJack was forced to pay the blog’s legal costs, to the tune of $50,000. It’s safe once again to talk about consumer products even if the company hasn’t paid you to do it.
Here’s the section of the EULA that got the party started:
“You also understand and agree that use of the magicJack device and Software will include advertisements and that these advertisements are necessary for the magicJack device to work … Our computers may analyze the phone numbers you call in order to improve the relevance of the ads”
…
Any claims, legal proceeding or litigation arising in connection with the magicJack device or Software will be resolved by binding arbitration … in Palm Beach, Florida.”
MagicJack dials wrong number in legal attack on Boing Boing [BoingBoing]
MagicJack Legal Documents [BoingBoing]
MAGICJACK’S EULA SAYS IT WILL SPY ON YOU AND FORCE YOU INTO ARBITRATION [BoingBoing Gadgets]
Don’t forget, you can grab yourself a free buttermilk shortstack at IHOP today, in celebration of National Pancake Day, the day when we take a moment to remember all the fallen pancakes who gave their lives in defense of our country. [IHOPpancakeday]
Never give a New Jersey toll collector pennies. Never. Ever. Not unless you want to risk them being thrown in your face. That’s the lesson I learned from reading the 30 pages of customer complaints The Smoking Gun gathered by doing a Freedom of Information Act request on the State of New Jersey. And in between the suggestions to stay flashing suggestions, threats of strip search and violence, that state is very altered indeed.
While most NJ toll collectors are totally professional, these 30 pages represent the hilarious exception to the rule. Here’s one:
Toll Collectors Gone Wild [The Smoking Gun] (Thanks to mitcheviousld!)
Be careful if you call Bank of America. You might wake the beast. April called BofA about a credit card that she hand’t used in a while to see about getting her interest rate reduced. At first they told her she qualified for a new card with an APR 10 points lower, but then the bloodshot eye of the guardian cast its fell gaze upon her for the first time in years and something nasty happened…
April writes, “I have had a Mastercard with Bank of America for a long time now. I have no balance on it and don’t use it much because its APR has always been higher than my others. But all my interest rates have been increasing so I called them to see if I could get a lower rate.
I entered all my information through the automated system, waited on hold for a live person, explained what I needed, then I was transferred and waited on hold again, and then had my interest rate lowered by 10 points (good news!). Then I was told to hold for someone to help me with the balance transfer. After holding some more I was asked a few questions. I was then told that my account was being closed. Turns out my income was too low.
They wouldn’t count my rental income because if the renter doesn’t pay, I would have to pay myself. The mortgage company thinks my rental income counts, but not Bank of America.
So total I was on the phone with them for 30 minutes holding and getting my rate lowered, only to wait 5 more min to be told my account was being closed. It was all the more irritating because the rep who told me was acting like it was a benefit. “We are going to go ahead and close this account for you.” Great. Thanks so much.
I should have known not to call in. Sometimes “the squeaky wheel may get the grease, but it also is the first one replaced.” 🙂
– April”
That’s Bank of America’s computer system tangle for ya!
Is there a “Chuck Norris” virus hiding inside your router and subjugating it for his secret botnet army? [Prague Daily Monitor]
Who’s in charge, the masters or the machines? You’ll be wondering the same thing after you listen to this iconic gem from The Consumerist archive, the infamous Verizon Can’t Do Math call, which we reposting because the original video got deleted and the posts were kind of scattered. In it, George recorded his attempts to get Verizon to explain why they said they would charge .002 cents/kbfor data roaming, and then billed him for .002 dollars/kb, a difference of about $76. Problem is, no one at Verizon can do math.
2:55 condensed version:
Absolutely nothing George says can convince the Verizon folks that a dollar is 1 hundred times 1 cent! Citing a “difference of opinion” one of the reps eve says, “I’ve been working here for 2 years, sir, and I’ve been a supervisor for a year and a half.” Amazing. Classic. More back and forth and documents are on George’s blog he set up to house the story, Verizon Math.
In the end, George got a 50% refund and an apology. However, as he blogged about his experience, other people came out of the woodwork who had had the same issue. For a while afterwards, George continued to blog about the math issues at Verizon, sharing the stories he was getting from other people. The posting has since dwindled, but his story remains a touchpoint in the history of online consumer activism. It was even referenced in a recent New York Times blog post.
— 27:00 full length version
TRANSCRIPT:
[Start of Call]
[on hold with Verizon Wireless customer service]
Trent (Verizon): Hi.. Hey, George?
George: Yes.
T: Hey I’m really sorry about that wait there. Hey, I got Mike on the line. He’s my supervisor over here and uh, he’ll take care of you from here on out, okay?
G: Thanks.
T: Alright.
Mike (Verizon): Thanks Trent. Good evening George, how are you doing this evening?
G: Great, except that I’ve been trying to resolve this for two calls and over 45 minutes now.
M: Okay, well lets see what we got here, I’m definitely sorry that uh, that you’ve had to call in that many times. Let’s see, ummm, looks like you’re questioning some kilobyte usage that was done while in Canada?
G: Well, let me just start out with a basic question.
M: Okay.
G: Do you recognize that there’s a difference between “point zero zero two dollars” and “point zero zero two cents”?
[pause]
M: Point zero zero two dollars?
G: Do you recognize that there is actually…
M: …and point zero zero two cents.
G: Yes, do you you recognize there’s a difference between those 2 numbers?
[pause]
M: No.
G: Okay, is there a difference between 2 dollars and 2 cents?
M: Well, yeah, sir..
G: Well okay, is it.. is there a difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents?
M: .002 dollars and .002 cents.
G: Yes, is there a difference between..
M: Sir, sir, they’re.. they’re both the same if you, if you look at ’em on paper-wise
G: No.. they’re not, actually. It.. is .5 dollars the same as .5 cents?
M: Is .5 dollars..?
G: Is half a dollar..
M: That would be.. That would be 50 cents.
G: A half a dollar.. is it the same as a half of a cent?
M: No.
G: Right.
M: Okay.
G: So, clearly, two one-thousandths of a dollar, which is your rate for airtime as I now understand it, uh, your rate per kilobyte in Canada is two one-thousandths of a dollar. But two one-thousandths of a dollar is different than two one-thousandths of a *cent*. What I was quoted was .002 cents. That’s two one-thousandths of a cent per kilobyte.
M: Mmhm. okay…?
G: I specifically asked the rep. I said, “Are you saying it’s .002 dollars or .002 cents?” because I .. *I* recognize that there’s a difference. Just like there’s a difference between that half a dollar and half a cent.
M: Okay.
G: There’s a difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. Your rate in Canada is .002 cents.
M: Correct.
G: Uh, it’s point, point… Well okay, it’s not true, it’s .002 dollars. You’re still quoting me .002 cents when in fact it’s .002 dollars per kilobyte. So, if you want to charge me .002 cents, I’d be happy to pay the bill, the problem is I was charged .002 dollars per kilobyte.
M: Okay, so if you take.. okay.. do you have a calculator with you?
G: Yeah, I do.
G: Okay, take this uh, 71.79.
G: Yeah.
M: And divide that by uh, 35,893 you should come out with .002
G: Yes, and what units should it be? Dollars or cents?
M: Well that’s per *kilobyte*.
G: Right. And is it dollars or cents per kilobyte?
M: Well, let me take a look here for ya.
[time passes…]
M: [looking up rates] We’re.. we’re in Canada..
[time passes…]
M: Hold on one second for me..
[time passes…]
M: [mumbles something about Canada]
[time passes…]
G: For the record, what I was quoted before I went to Canada, I called because I’m on an unlimited plan in the United States and I thought I might be paying more when I go to Canada.
M: Right.
G: What I was quoted was .002 cents. That seems to be what you believe is the rate is .002 cents. Unfortunately, your computer system charged me .002 dollars per kilobit, er, per kilobyte, so my point here is the confusion is on your side, and the first rep I spoke to, the second rep I spoke to, and including you, in calling “.002 dollars” “.002 cents”, that’s a hundredfold difference just like one dollar is 100 times different than1 cent.
[time passes…]
M: Okay… looking at the pricing here for ya.
M: Okay.. for data.
M: National roaming access coverage in Canada is .002 per kilobyte cents.
G: Can you say that again?
M: It’s .002 cents per kilobyte
G: .002 cents per kilobyte. So you just quoted me again; your price is .002 cents per kilobyte
M: Correct.
G: Okay, so now I’d like you to translate my 35,893 kilobytes into dollars if you would.
M: Okay, if you take .002
G: Cents, remember, cents.
M: Times 35,896. 71 dollars and 79…
G: No, that would be 71 cents because you started with a rate per *cent* and multiplied by the kilobytes, so that would be 71 cents. I’ll tell you what the problem is here, is you, you’re.. the original person I spoke to *before* I used my airtime…
M: Mmhmm.
G: Up to and including you, are quoting .002 dollars per kilobyte as if it’s .002 cents per kilobyte and they’re not the same, so I assumed that you guys knew how to do math. No offense here , but i assumed that you knew the difference between .002 cents and .002 dollars. And it sounds like there’s still some confusion about that. .002 dollars is two one-thousandths of one dollar, or two tenths of one cent, which is very different than two one-thousandths of one cent. It’s one hundred times different. [pause] I’ll give you a brief example: If you’re selling your car and I said I’m gonna give you twenty thousand for it, and I show up with 20,000 pennies, we’re not speaking the same language. If you quote me .002 cents it’s not the same as .002 dollars. So, when you just did the math .002 times 35,893, you came up with 71 cents. You didn’t do the translation from cents to dollars, which would be… you’d have to.. uh, divide by a hundred, so then you get .71 dollars: 71 cents, So, I do understand, even though it seems like maybe *you* don’t, that the rate is, I now understand: .002 *dollars* per kilobyte. But that was not what i was quoted, and that’s not how I used my airtime because i thought it was… I thought it was cheaper than it actually turned out to be, because I was misquoted.
M: Mmhm.
G: I also had no context. The previous person i was speaking to said I should have had some context because i know what the united states rates – I *don’t* know what the United States rates are, because I have an unlimited plan. I don’t have to be concerned about the United States rates.
M: Mmhm.
G: So. It all comes down to me being misquoted, and it’s hard.. it, would, it, it.. At the time, I, I said there could be some confusion here, so I asked the customer service rep, “Can you please write that down in the notes, that you quoted me .002 cents?”
M: Mmhm.
G: And she did.
M: Right, and I see that.. I see not only one, but I see several reps that have put it in here.
G: Right. So I.. I hope, it sounds like you may not actually see what the problem is yet, but ah..
M: Well, I’ve been working here 2 years sir, and I’ve been a supervisor for almost a year and a half.
G: Okay..
M: Okay? Umm, ya know, I’m going by what is.. what is documented here in the system.
G: Right.. so can you tell me then if, if the rate is as you quoted .002 cents per min.. per kilobyte, and I used 35,893.kilobytes, how much should I be charged?
M: By, by.. The way this is calculated? Seventy-one dollars and seventy-nine cents.
G: You did your math wrong, so what I’m saying is you did… bring up your calculator.
M: I.. I’ve got the calculator in front of me, sir. If i type in .002 and multiply that by 35 thousand, nine hundred…
G: But wait! but but.. Here’s the key.. I know, but here’s the key: What does the .002 represent? Cents or dollars?
M: It’s cents, sir.
G: Okay, .002 cents…
M: So basically you’re paying… you’re paying two tenths of a penny [pause] per kilobyte. If you want to look at it that way.
G: Two tenths? hold on, hold on.. two tenths of a penny…
M: Mmhm.
G: …would be .2 cents. You quoted me .002 cents. Do you see what I’m saying? [pause] Two tenths of one cent…
M: Mmhm.
G: …would be point two cents. You quoted me .002 cents.
M: That’s correct.
G: there’s a difference between .2 cents and .002 cents. They’re 100 times different. So which is the real rate?
M: .002 sir.
G: .002 what?
M: Cents per kilobyte!
[pause]
G: So you just said it was .2 pennies and then you also said it was .002 cents. Those are 2 completely different numbers. They’re 100-fold different. Quoting someone .002 cents per kilobyte is different than .002 dollars per kilobyte. I… I don’t know what else more I can tell ya. The math… the math on the bill is right if it’s .002 dollars per kilobyte. It was quoted .002 cents.
M: George, hold on one second for me okay?
G: Sure.
[on hold for 2 minutes, 35 seconds]
Andrea (Verizon): This is Andrea, the manager on the floor. How can i help you today?
G: Hi, uh, I think we’ve got a terminology and mathematics problem goin’ on here and it’s… It’s very basic to me, but I think we’re just having a problem because of the numbers involved.
A: Okay.
G: Just to summarize, I was quoted before I entered Canada… I was quoted .002 cents per kilobyte.
A: Okay.
G: And, just so you know, I have no context for how much you guys charge for data because I have a unlimited plan in the States so it’s uh, I don’t… Someone has… had mentioned to me I should have known that what it was because of what I pay in the states, but I pay… I get unlimited usage in the States, so I don’t have any knowledge of that. .002 cents per minute is what’s quoted for me… is what was quoted to me. My bill reflects .002 *dollars* per minute
A: What do you mean .002 dollars?
G: [big sigh] Okay, I think I have to do this again. Do you recognize that there’s a difference between one dollar and one cent?
A: Definitely.
G: Do you recognize there’s a difference between half a dollar and half a cent?
A: Definitely
G: Then, do you therefore recognize there’s a difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents
A: No.
G: No?
A: I mean there’s… there’s no .002 dollars.
G: Of course there it’s.. it’s two..
A: There’s .002 cents is what you’re quoted, and that’s what I do show that you… you paid, or that ya know, you’re paying for the kilobyte usage.
G: Okay. [sigh] I don’t.. I don’t know a better way to express this. .002 dollars is the same as .2 cents.
A: Okay. Well how would you… What would .002 dollars look to you?
G: It’s point…
A: Obviously, a dollar is “one, decimal, zero, zero” right? So what would a “point zero zero two dollars” look like?
G: I don’t know…
A: I’ve never heard of .002 dollars. .002 dollars, it’s just not…
G: This is just… this is just math we’re talking about… this is…
A: …not a full cent.
G: That’s right. And…
A: Okay.
G: That’s right. And .002 cents is also not a full cent. My point here, is .002 dollars if you do the math, is .00002 cents. It’s 1/100th difference. There’s a hundred cents in a dollar.
A: But you were quoted .002 cents not .002 dollars.
G: That’s correct, but what I was charged…
A: Okay, so take .002 cents as .002
G: Dollars?
A: No,cents… .002
G: [to friend] You gotta hear this.
G: .002…
A: Uh-huh.
G: …cents, is two one-thousandths of one cent. I’m teaching math here.
A: [laughs] And I… I mean, I’m trying to get what you’re saying here, but it’s just not…
G: Here’s the… Let me… Let me cut to the chase…
A: I’m sorry that you um, already talked to a few different people here..
G: …Let me cut to the chase.. Well
A: …and they’ve all explained to you that you’re being billed .002 cents, and if you take…
G: I’m not being billed…
A: …and put it on your calculator.. it shows you that..
G: No it doesn’t, I can do…
A: We never said that you’re gonna get billed .00002 cents.
G: That’s right, you said I was gonna get billed .002 cents per kilobyte, and I’d be happy to pay that. Now, why don’t you bring up your calculator?
A: .002 cents, yeah.
G: Take .002, and we’re talkin’ about cents, right?
A: Right, .002, and if we multiply that by the amount of kilobyte usage that you have…
G: 35,893.
A: …35,893, that comes out to what you paid, $71.79.
G: Cents. You never did the conversion from cents to dollars.
A: Cuz we’re talkin’ about cents, we’re gonna multiply the amount of cents by the amount of kilobytes that you used…
G: Okay, ya know, ok…
A: …not dollars, nobody’s mentioning anything about dollars.
G: Let me start over here. Let’s… Let’s just say, hypothetically, that your rate was one cent per kilobyte. Right?
A: One cent, that would be .01
G: Right. .01 in her calculator. Correct. So, if it was one cent per kilobyte, and I used one hundred kilobytes, what would my charge be? You would take .01…
A: Uh-huh.
G: …times 100. And you come up with 1.
A: Right.
G: Right? for 1 dollar.
A: Right.
G: That’s if it was 1 cent per kilobyte. You’re telling me, you’re telling me though that the rate is not 1 cent, it’s .002 cents.
A: Right. [pause] that’s less than one cent.
G: .002 cents, if… if you, if you… in, in pure mathematics, it’s the only way I can express this, .002 cents is 2 one thousandths of one cent.
A: Okay.
G: Right?
A: So it’s less than a cent right?
G: It’s very much less than a cent.
A: Okay.
G: So, two one-thousandths of a cent. So lets start with two cents, just like we started with the one cent.
A: Okay, why are we doing two cents? We need to be doing .002 cents.
G: [big sigh]
A: My, I guess my point is, is that we quoted you .002 cents.
G: That’s right.
A: If you write it down is decimal point zero zero two…
G: No, it’s not, this… this is what I’m saying…
A: …so all we have to do with the calculator is decimal point zero zero two and multiply it by how many kilobytes that you had…
G: This is where… This is where you’re wrong, I, I don’t know how to make this any clearer. Let’s try this. Write down 1 cent. How do you write down 1 cent?
A: Point zero one.
G: How do you write down half a cent?
A: Uhhh, that would be point zero zero five of a cent.
G: Okay.
A: [laughing] I don’t know, I’m not a mathematician. All I’m telling you is I can tell you that with the calculator…
G: Yep.
A: …and we take the .002 as everybody has told you that you’ve called in and spoke to…
G: Yes, but…
A: …and as our system bill accordingly, is correct.
G: But you said .002 *cents*. Why don’t you just write it down on a piece of paper. You have .002 *cents* not dollars. .002 *cents*…
A: Right
G: …times my 35,893. It’s a number, but it’s still in *cents*. If you quoted me .002 *dollars*, everything is correct. If you quoted me .002 dollars, which represents two tenths of one cent – per kilobyte, then everything is fine. But I wasn’t quoted two tenths of one cent, I was quoted two one-thousandths of one cent. I was quoted .002 cents. It’s a terminology problem. You guys are quoting .002 dollars as if it’s cents, simply because there’s a decimal point involved.
A: We’re not quoting .002 dollars, we’re quoting .002 *cents*
G: Ah, God.. Honestly.
A: I mean the computer is calculating the, the figure here…
G: I know it is, it’s… it’s a terminology issue…
A: …and we are calculating the figure here, and we’re all coming up with the same thing – except for you.
G: .002 cents is different than .002 dollars. I’m being charged .002 dollars per kilobyte. .002 dollars is one tenth of one… I mean, two tenths of one cent.
A: Okay, well, I mean it’s obviously a difference of opinion…
G: It’s not opinion! This is.. this is..
A: …the amount that you’re billed for the data usage is entirely correct.
G: [exasperated] Ah, God.. Okay, well, you know what, I’m gonna post this recording on my blog, and…
A: And that’s, if that’s what you want to do, that’s fine.
G: …that’s what I’m gonna do, and, and then you guys all at Verizon can learn math, and you’ll learn how to quote it correctly. The rate as I understand it now, and according to my bill, which is now, I’m getting *after* the usage, is .002 *dollars* per kilobyte. Just so you know. if it was cents, you’d have to quote it as two tenths of one cent, or .2 cents.
A: Right.
G: It would be like – another example: Half of a meter is very different than half of a centimeter. Half of a centimeter is written “.5cm”. Half of a meter is “.5m” They’re two very different things. You can’t just write .002m equals .002cm. They’re one-hundredfold different. What I was quoted was a rate per cent, not per dollar. Uh, a rate in cents, not in dollars. If I was quoted .002 dollars, there would be no problem, but I was quoted .002 cents. I was quoted fractions of a cent.
A: Okay, well, the only thing I can say is it was just a misunderstanding between…
G: It was a misunderstanding, but I did the diligence to ask what the actual rate was, when she told me .002 cents, I said “Are you sure? Can you note it in my account?”, and she did. As .002 cents. But the problem here is that you’re not even acknowledging now that there’s a difference between .002 when you’re talking about dollars, and .002 cents. My assumption was it was .002 cents, because that’s what you told me. But it’s been calculated on my bill as .002 dollars, or two tenths of a cent per kilobyte, which is different than two one-thousandths of a cent per kilobyte.
A: Okay.
G: It’s a hundredfold different. My, my bill according to what you quoted me should be 71 cents not 71 dollars.
A: Okay. Well, again, there’s not… we’re not going to be able to make any adjustments to the bill because it is correct, and I do apologize if it was… obviously miscommunication or misunderstanding in explaining that to you.
G: Okay, is there someone i can escalate this to? because…
A: No, I’m the floor manager, so…
G: Because this is not adequate. An example I gave to the previous rep would be, if I said to you “I’ll give you twenty thousand for your car” and I showed up with twenty thousand pennies. It… it matters whether you say .002 dollars or .002 cents.
A: Okay.
G: Unfortunately, it seems like our educational system is making an ambiguity between .002 dollars and .002 cents, they’re very different.
A: Okay.
G: So I was quoted a different rate than I was charged and you don’t seem to want to take responsibility for that.
A: Okay, well, I mean, if you wanted to contact the corporate, you could do that on our website…
G: Can…
A: There’s a link under support that you can send an email directly to the corporate office and request that they contact you.
G: I.. I’m on there right now can you just bear with me while I find it?
A: Sure.
G: Support…I don’t see it here, where would I see it? Under “Contact Us?”
A: Om, just a second here. [typing]
A: OK, yeah go to the actually the “Contact Us.” Its going to give you a drop down box to choose whether you are a customer or not.
G: Um Hmm
A: Once you select the dropdown box its going give you a grid here that says “send an email.” You type in all of your information…
G: I don’t see that. I’m already logged into my account, is that the problem?
A: Are you hitting “Contact Us” at the very top in blue?
G: Om…
A: It should still allow you to get there even if you are logged in.
G: “Contact Us.”
A: At the very top where it says “Home, Site Map.”
G: Yeah, so I click on that.
A: OK
G: “Send us an email – What type of Verizon Customer?”
A: Yes, exactly.
G: “I receive a monthly statement”?
A: Hit “Yes” and then this is the email grid that you fill out.
G: OK great. And what was your name again?
A: Andrea.
G: Andrea, is there a way I can get back in touch with you if I need to?
A: I can just give you my direct line?
G: OK great.
A: It’s 888 581 1070 extension xxxx.
G: Alright, thanks.
A: Thank you.
G: Bye bye.
A: Bye.
G: [Click] Buffoons.
[End Of Call]
[VerizonMath]
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Verizon Doesn’t Know Difference Between Dollars And Cents
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