Pincus brought in a printed out screen of a CafeWorld game they created for Rose. Pincus, President Obama and Hillary Clinton are waiters in the cafe. Rose is the cook.<\/p>\n
Pincus says his business model is direct payments for enhanced gameplay, and virtual gifts. What didn’t come up at all was Scamville<\/a>. Rose also steered clear of the growing financial ties<\/a> between Facebook and Zynga.<\/p>\n Watch the full interview here<\/a> (it will re-air tonight on Bloomberg Television at 8PM and 10PM ET). <\/p>\n The transcript is below. <\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE, HOST: Welcome to the broadcast. Tonight, Mark Pincus, (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)<\/p>\n MARK PINCUS, FOUNDER AND CEO, ZYNGA: I think there is a social media I think the people regularly are consuming media while they’re at work (END VIDEO CLIP)<\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: We continue with Michael Specter, the author of (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)<\/p>\n MICHAEL SPECTER, AUTHOR: Everyone knows what denial is. Sometimes When society does it, I don’t think it ever is healthy. And I think (END VIDEO CLIP)<\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: We conclude this evening with the architect Annabelle (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)<\/p>\n ANNABELLE SELLDORF, SELLDORF ARCHITECTS: You start with listening CHARLIE ROSE: Pincus, Specter, and Selldorf, next. <\/p>\n (COMMERCIAL BREAK)<\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: Mark Pincus is here. He is the founder and CEO of the Among them is Farmville, which allows users to manage a virtual farm. Zynga’s games are part of growing world of apps available on various I am pleased to have Mark Pincus at the table for the first time. And MARK PINCUS: Thank you. <\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: Tell me what do you.<\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: Sure. So the best way to think about what’s going on And that’s really what’s going on with social networks and smart And if you remember, people complained there’s nothing to do now that And when they opened up their platform and then others like MySpace CHARLIE ROSE: You decided to start this company, and you saw what MARK PINCUS: Well, for me, I had started a social network actually And once Facebook opened up their platform to third parties, I CHARLIE ROSE: And did you have any idea of the potential of it all? <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: I’d say, at first we didn’t realize how big social CHARLIE ROSE: And so those people who correspond in face groups, as MARK PINCUS: We don’t have any particular data, I think only the CHARLIE ROSE: Tell me about “Mafia Wars.” <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: Sure, so “Mafia Wars’” is a game where you form a mafia The key difference is that you are relying on your friends. You’re People have taken it to this much more extreme place where they have CHARLIE ROSE: Great. This is great.<\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: This is Charlie’s Cafe. And if you look, you’re the And everybody is building out their restaurants, sometimes in CHARLIE ROSE: Talk a little bit about virtual gifts. <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: Sure. Gifting was from early on when Facebook opened So, if you’re playing the game of Facebook or MySpace you’re building CHARLIE ROSE: Right. <\/p>\n For your company, you look ahead, is games between social network MARK PINCUS: Well, you may see something I don’t, but we are excited So, what I mean by that is, our users, these are free games. And one And we are very bullish on the growth that have business, and we’re CHARLIE ROSE: Tend to your own knitting, as someone once said. MARK PINCUS: There are different ways to think about it. There are CHARLIE ROSE: And that’s a business that was not in existence how MARK PINCUS: Three years ago. <\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: Three years ago. A totally new business. <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: Yes. <\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: Go ahead. <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: Second is you can look at it by numbers of users. And So I think there are several hundred million users interacting with Third, you can think of it in terms of the revenues, which is good way CHARLIE ROSE: And what’s the prospect say for five years out? <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: Well, you can look to the Asian market where it’s not so I think most analysts predict that the worldwide market will grow to CHARLIE ROSE: You have no particular interest in games but you were MARK PINCUS: I saw that social games looked like a perfect CHARLIE ROSE: How much of it is played by smart phones, on smart MARK PINCUS: It’s actually a smaller percentage. It’s maybe — I’d CHARLIE ROSE: And how many on computers? <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: I’d say that’s probably in the range ever 60 million or CHARLIE ROSE: Will that equation change over the next five years? <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: Yes. It’s changing rapidly. So with the iPhone and CHARLIE ROSE: The Droid and everybody else will be in there with apps MARK PINCUS: Yes. <\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: The penetration of smart phones will change the world MARK PINCUS: I think that the penetration of the Blackberry has CHARLIE ROSE: Blackberries, and specific, not iPhones but MARK PINCUS: Mostly Blackberries but also iPhones. And I believe And it actually raises our opportunity cost of doing other activities. CHARLIE ROSE: How else is the world changing? Who factors beyond MARK PINCUS: Well, I think there is a social media revolution going I think that people regularly are consuming media while they’re at So, more that my friend is talking about a “Charlie Rose Show,” and I CHARLIE ROSE: Exactly. And so that’s one phenomenon happening. Give MARK PINCUS: Well, I think that more and more people are starting CHARLIE ROSE: See, that’s a huge thing. To say that is a huge thing. <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: I hope I’m right. <\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: No, but it’s amazing to me, rather than Googling for MARK PINCUS: Yes. I think you may get to a public web and a social CHARLIE ROSE: And define how the two would be different. <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: The public web experience is what you have today. It is And the social web experience is a logged in experience where the Web CHARLIE ROSE: Where are we in terms of the digital revolution? <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: I think we’re very early, 10 percent in. When I started It was amazing to me that there was only five or six. <\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: And today? <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: Seven. <\/p>\n (LAUGHTER)<\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: But if you are starting out today, and if you were MARK PINCUS: Sure. I’m turned on by all of the things that we do in CHARLIE ROSE: A private sale…<\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: So in other words, you join her site, and every day they CHARLIE ROSE: Right. <\/p>\n MARK PINCUS: It’s an alternative way to shop. <\/p>\n Now, e-commerce could happen through a social lens. I could go to It’s not always obvious where it will be better, and that’s the And I think that they’re going to instantiate new web services. So I CHARLIE ROSE: Are you in it for the money? Are you in it because of MARK PINCUS: That’s a great question. I’m interested in creating And as an entrepreneur, the opportunity to potentially create one of My friends who have had big financial pay outs where they sold their And I think so many of us are really searching for our 20-year career. CHARLIE ROSE: A, congratulations. B, it’s fascinating to learn about MARK PINCUS: Yes, thanks for everything me. <\/p>\n CHARLIE ROSE: Thank you. <\/p>\n Crunch Network<\/em><\/strong>: CrunchGear<\/a> <\/em>drool over the sexiest new gadgets and hardware.<\/p>\n
\nFounder and CEO of Zynga. <\/p>\n
\nrevolution going on right now. And I think that we are changing our media
\nconsumption habits at a rate that we haven’t done even with the advent of
\nthe Internet. I think it’s going on right now. <\/p>\n
\nand while they’re doing other activities in a tab in their browser or on
\ntheir smart phone. And I think media will change. In order to thrive I
\nthink media will figure out how to entertain me in several minute bites and
\nin ways that are more social. <\/p>\n
\n“Denialism.”<\/p>\n
\nyou’re so depressed that that you can’t really face the facts. So you
\nhide, you pretend things aren’t true. And that happens to everyone. It’s
\nnormal. It may even be healthy for a little while. <\/p>\n
\nthere are number of issues now, particularly in scientific life, where we
\nare in denial as a culture. <\/p>\n
\nSelldorf. <\/p>\n
\nvery carefully to what the mandate is. Unlike some architects, ours is not
\nan architecture of grand gestures or monumental statements, but rather sort
\nof subtle interventions. <\/p>\n
\nsocial gaming company Zynga. It is behind some of those popular apps for
\ngames. <\/p>\n
\nIt has 66 million monthly active users with farms, that is more than the
\ntotal number of farms in the United States. <\/p>\n
\nplatforms like smart phones and social networking sites like Facebook.
\nAnalysts say the apps economy is worth $1 billion today and could be headed
\nto $4 billion by 2012. <\/p>\n
\none point, personal interest, I have small investment in a firm that
\ninvested in his company. So I’m pleased to talk to Mark Pincus about
\nwhat’s going on in the world of apps. Welcome. <\/p>\n
\nwith social games, it’s really a throwback to the kinds of board games that
\nwe all grew up playing with our friends and families where the game was
\nreally just a context for us to be social. <\/p>\n
\nphones today, what we are all getting connected, and it’s like a cocktail
\nparty which really started with Friendster, which is really the first time
\nwe all got together online. <\/p>\n
\nwe’re all together on this social network. And so Facebook was one of the
\nfirst to start to add more dimensions to that experience with feeds and
\npictures. <\/p>\n
\nand the iPhone opened up, it gave independent third party game developers a
\nchance, like us, a chance to build games that their users could use to
\ninteract with each other. <\/p>\n
\nopportunity? <\/p>\n
\nbefore Facebook called tribe.net, which failed. But what I saw during that
\ntime was that people did need something to do with each other. <\/p>\n
\nimmediately thought the opportunity I was most excited about was to provide
\na chance for people to play games together. <\/p>\n
\ngaming could be. But once we launched our first game and we saw how viral
\nit could be and how many people would want to come and play games together,
\nwe started to see how big the audience could get. <\/p>\n
\nan example, how much time do they play games versus what other activities
\nthey do? <\/p>\n
\nnetworks have that. But we’ve heard that people in aggregate may be
\nspending as much as half of the time on these networks playing games. <\/p>\n
\nwith your friends and you — it’s kind of like a game like “World of War
\nCraft” but it happens in text and pictures instead of immersive
\nenvironments. <\/p>\n
\ncollaborating together throughout the game. There’s features like “declare
\nwar” where if somebody attacks you, you can declare war on them and it
\ntells all your friends to come help you. <\/p>\n
\nactually created whole clans that can have thousands of members to them. A
\ngame like “Cafe World,” we actually created one for you.<\/p>\n
\ncook, I’m a waiter, Hillary Clinton is a waiter, and Obama is a waiter.
\nAnd so you are virtually playing with all of us. And you can hire us to
\nwork in your restaurant, you can come to our cafes, you can gift dishes to
\neach other. <\/p>\n
\ncompetition and often in collaborations. <\/p>\n
\nthe platform, gifting became a very popular activity. If you think about
\nwhat is going on in social network, I like to say that you’re in a game of
\nbuilding your social capital. <\/p>\n
\nout your network and you’re actually doing things that elevate your status
\nwith all of these other people. And gifts is a terrific way to build your
\nsocial capital with people. And virtual gifts are much easier and quick
\ntore give people than UPS-based gifts. <\/p>\n
\nmembers the principle source of revenue, or do you see this having some
\npotential that you — hasn’t fully developed yet. <\/p>\n
\nabout the future of social games and virtual goods as a revenue model
\nwithin social games. <\/p>\n
\nto two percent of the users will spend money on the games. And they can
\nspend them on virtual goods, virtual gifts we just started selling. And
\nthat has been a revenue model that has enabled our company to be profitable
\nfor eight straight quarters. <\/p>\n
\nnot really looking for other business. <\/p>\n
\nWhat’s the size of the app market today? <\/p>\n
\nonly three ways. You can think about it in terms of the number of apps
\nthat have been downloaded. And there’s lots of estimates, I think it’s
\nprobably something in the range of four billion apps have been downloaded. <\/p>\n
\nmany years ago? <\/p>\n
\nagain, there’s all kinds of estimates. But people think out of the 400
\nmillion users on Facebook, more than half of them regularly use apps and
\nprobably two-thirds have participated, 80 percent of iPhone users download
\ngames and apps. So I think they’re supposed to grow to 50 million users. <\/p>\n
\napps today. <\/p>\n
\nto think about businesses. And from a revenue perspective, I think people
\nare estimating more than two billion in revenues next year. <\/p>\n
\nmuch apps as it is free games with virtual goods. And that’s already
\nseveral billion dollars. <\/p>\n
\nnorth of $8 billion in revenues in the next couple of years. And I think
\nwe’ll see. I think it could grow to 15 billion in the next five years. <\/p>\n
\njust looking for entrepreneurial opportunities? <\/p>\n
\nopportunity that could be launched because of social networks. <\/p>\n
\nphones? <\/p>\n
\nguess five or six million people a day that might be playing games on smart
\nphones. <\/p>\n
\n70 million a day. <\/p>\n
\niPod touch, that market is growing incredibly quickly. And I expect that
\nthe rest of the phone market will catch up. <\/p>\n
\nand competing, right? <\/p>\n
\nthat we know in what way? <\/p>\n
\nalready changed our world in a way that we’re not even completely aware of
\nyet. I was walking around Central Park this weekend and literally I’d say
\nseven out of ten people were on their Blackberries. And –<\/p>\n
\nBlackberries? <\/p>\n
\nthat it’s not all bad. I believe that what’s happened because of these
\nsmart devices, we can be productive all the time now. And so we can be on
\ne-mail, we can be doing business, we can be social, playing games in all
\nthe nooks and crannies of our time. <\/p>\n
\nIt’s hard now to sit on our airplane read a book when you can be on the
\nInternet. <\/p>\n
\nthat are at play that we ought to understand because it’s your business to
\nunderstand those factors? <\/p>\n
\non right now. And I think that we are changing our media consumption
\nhabits at a rate that we haven’t done even with the advent of the Internet.
\nAnd I think it’s going on right now. <\/p>\n
\nwork and while they’re doing other activities in a tab in their browser or
\non their smart phone. And I think media will change. In order to thrive I
\nthink media will figure out how to entertain me in several minute bites and
\nin ways that are more social. <\/p>\n
\nmight trip over what I call a social bread crumb. So I might be more
\nlikely to find your show in my news feed on Facebook or Twitter because a
\nfriend is talking about it then going back to your Web site. <\/p>\n
\nme some others of how the landscape is changing. <\/p>\n
\ntheir web experience because of an SMS message or something they saw on a
\nTwitter home page or Facebook home page not necessarily starting at Google
\nor Yahoo!<\/p>\n
\nsomething or finding it on Google, because of Twitter, because of Facebook,
\nbecause somebody mention something and that’s within your world of interest
\nand friendship, you are going to go look at it. <\/p>\n
\nweb, and you’ll use both. They will interact with each other. <\/p>\n
\ngoing to a destination like Google or eBay or Amazon. And you don’t have
\nto be logged in. And you’re just going to book an air flight or whatever. <\/p>\n
\nsite that you are going to knows something about you. <\/p>\n
\nthis company I woke up in 2007 and I was amazed that I could count the
\nnumber of major consumer net, Internet brands on one hand. And they were a
\nsearch engine, a garage sale site with eBay, classified listings, a portal. <\/p>\n
\nlooking for other things that you thought were exciting and had a huge
\nfuture, give us some indication wherever they are. <\/p>\n
\nhigh volume on the Internet today that could be recreated in social
\ncontext. So my wife has launched a private sale site for home decor items,
\nwhich I won’t plug. But it’s…<\/p>\n
\nshow you deals that are limited time offers…<\/p>\n
\neither Facebook or a site that is socially enabled and I could find deals
\non black Friday or whatever through what my friends have done. I could
\nfind my travel through a social lens. <\/p>\n
\nopportunity for entrepreneurs. But I think there’s a shift in people’s
\nhabits. They’re spending time on socially enabled sites. They’re looking
\nfor much quicker short form and sometimes mobile option for entertainment. <\/p>\n
\nthink there’s an opportunity to be my travel site. <\/p>\n
\nsome other reason? <\/p>\n
\nwhat both of our friend Bing Gordon calls “Internet treasure.” And I think
\nthat we will be remembered in this point in history for the great consumer
\nbranded Internet services that were created that enhance people’s lives,
\nlike Amazon, like Google, like Facebook. <\/p>\n
\nthose branded services is what turns me on and what I hope to one day do. <\/p>\n
\ncompany or are no longer at a successful company, they find themselves kind
\nof bored and lost, and they have to go through these kind of mid-life
\ncrises every time. <\/p>\n
\nAnd people said to me, Pincus, you’re a serial entrepreneur. You just love
\nstarting company. I say, no, I don’t. It’s really hard. And I would love
\nto find a company I could be at for 20 years. <\/p>\n
\nthis. Ben Gordon did me a favor by telling me about you and what’s going
\non with Zynga, and let’s keep in touch. <\/p>\n